'Splainin' Silver (again!)

[The War Wagon]

GREAT article at J.W. Rawles "Survivalblog" site today.

On Gold, Silver, and Barter

I am often asked in e-mails about gold and silver coins and their value, both in the present day and their eventual worth (post-TEOTWAWKI) for barter purposes.

The basic unit of measure for most of us that are in preparedness circles is the $1,000 face value bag of circulated U.S. silver coinage, minted in or before 1964. (Some folks mistakenly call these coins “Pre-’64”, but properly they should be termed “Pre-’65.”)

1964 was the last year that 90% silver coins were minted for circulation in the U.S. All of the dimes and quarters minted from 1965 onward are “clad” copper pieces–a sandwiched token that is mainly copper and merely flashed with silver. The government has the audacity to still refer to the new currency as “money” and “dollars”, when they are nothing of the sort. Just look at the edge of one of the modern “coins” in your pocket. We’ve been robbed, ladies and gents!

The 90% silver dimes and quarters coins were almost all gleaned out of circulation by about 1967. Finding one these in your pocket change these days is a rarity and cause for celebration. (Usually inadvertently in circulation because a child raided the wrong piggy bank and spent the coins in ignorance.) The Kennedy half dollar coin continued to be minted with just 40% silver content from 1965 to 1970. After that, Uncle Sugar dropped all pretense of issuing real coinage for circulation.

A $1,000 silver bag weighs about 55 pounds and is roughly the size of a bowling ball. The coins used for this purpose are typically well-worn and hence have little or no numismatic (collector’s) value. Hence, they are often derisively called “junk silver” bags by coin dealers and collectors. Dimes, quarters, and half dollars all have the same ratio of silver content per dollar of face value. Silver dollars have a bit more silver content per dollar, so they sell at a premium. (See below.) Because of the weight of silver bags insured shipping is problematic. So it is advisable to buy locally, but definitely shop around for the best price! If you don’t have any nearby coins shop and don’t mind paying for the freight, contact the folks at Gainesville Coins, APMEX, or Swiss America Trading. All three of them are very reputable companies.


Precious Metals, By The Numbers

Here are some basic figures on U.S. silver coinage that you should keep tucked away, both on a USB memory stick and in hard copy:

Silver dollar bags ($1,000 face value) contain approximately 765 Troy ounces of silver

90% .50/.25/.10 bags ($1,000 face value) contain approximately 715 Troy ounces of silver. (Thus, if the day’s “spot” market price is $27.53 per ounce, then a $1,000 face value bag of pre-1965 mint date quarters would be worth $19,683, wholesale. Or just think of it 19.68 times the face value of any single coin. Hence, a “junk” silver quarter is presently worth about $4.90, wholesale.) Retail prices typically run 12% to 15% over wholesale on small quantities and as little as 10% when you buy a full bag or multiple bags. But it all depends on where you buy, since some dealers provide for most of their profit when they buy, while others do when they sell.

40% half dollar bags ($1,000 face value) contain approximately 296 Troy ounces of silver. (These were the 40% silver Kennedy half dollars minted between 1965 and 1970.)

Adjusted for inflation, the price of silver is still near its historic low. Spot silver was as high as $45 an ounce as recently as 1979. That equates to 32 times face value. Adjusted for inflation, $45 in 1979 paper dollars would be $178, today! I consider silver at anywhere under $30 per Troy ounce a bargain.

Conversion Formulas:
- Grams to pennyweights, multiply grams by .643
- Pennyweights to grams, multiply pennyweights by 1.555
- Grams to troy ounces, multiply grams by 0.32
- Troy ounces to grams, multiply troy ounces by 31.103
- Pennyweights to troy ounces, divide pennyweights by 20
- Troy ounces to pennyweights, multiply troy ounces by 20
- Grains to grams, multiply grains by .0648
- Grams to grains, multiply grams by 15.432
- Pennyweights to grains, multiply pennyweights by 24
- Avoirdupois ounces to troy ounces, multiply avoirdupois ounces by .912
- Troy ounces to avoirdupois ounces, multiply troy ounces by 1.097
- Avoirdupois ounces to grams, multiply avoirdupois ounces by 28.35
- Grams to Avoirdupois ounces, multiply grams by .035

Purity Standards (by Karat):
- 24 K = 99.9% fine Pure Gold. Too weak for jewelry, but ideal for industrial use
- 23.5K = 97.92% fine
- 23 K = 95.83% fine
- 22.5K = 93.75% fine
- 22 K = 92.67% fine Some coin gold, though not that of the U.S., is 22K
- 21.6K = 90.00% fine The approximate purity of U.S. gold coins
- 21.5K = 89.58% fine
- 21 K = 87.50% fine
- 20.5K = 85.42% fine
- 20 K = 83.33% fine
- 19.5K = 81.25% fine
- 19 K = 79.17% fine
- 18.5K = 77.08% fine
- 18 K = 75.00% fine The highest grade of gold normally used in jewelry.
- 17.5K = 72.92% fine
- 17 K = 70.83% fine
- 16.5K = 68.75% fine
- 16 K = 66.67% fine 1/3 copper. This grade is commonly used in dental work.
- 15.5K = 64.58% fine
- 15 K = 62.50% fine
- 14.5K = 60.42% fine
- 14 K = 58.33% fine
- 13.5K = 56.25% fine
- 13 K = 54.17% fine
- 12.5K = 52.08% fine
- 12 K = 50.00% fine Half gold, half copper. Used extensively in low priced jewelry. (Will show brownish tinge in reaction to Nitric Acid.)
- 11.5K = 47.92% fine The percentage of copper now exceeds that of gold.
- 11 K = 45.83% fine
- 10.5K = 43.75% fine
- 10 K = 41.67% fine Used in some low-grade jewelry such as class rings. Shows a marked reaction to Nitric Acid.
- 9.5 K = 39.58% fine
- 9 K = 37.50% fine Not much more than one-third gold.

Silver Purity Standards:
- .9999 fine “Pure Silver”
- .9584 fine “Britannia Silver”–Often used in manufacturing.
- .9250 fine “Sterling Silver” Normally stamped “Sterling” or “.925”
- .9000 fine “Coin Silver” Some antique items are marked “Dollar”, “D”,”.900″, or “Coin Silver” to indicate they were made from melted coins.
“German Silver” is +/- 97% base metal and only +/- 3% silver, and thus has no bullion value.

As I’ve stated in previous SurvivalBlog posts, I consider pre-1965 silver dimes the best coins to keep on hand for barter. They are a small enough increment of purchasing value that they will be practical for buying things such as cans of beans or loaves of bread. I do not recommend gold coins for barter because they are too compact a form of wealth. Aside from resorting to a cold chisel, if you use them in barter you will likely end up on the losing side of the transaction.

The value that silver coins will bring you in barter will depend on the times. Immediately after a collapse, I predict that silver coins may not be worth much at all in barter. But as law and order is gradually restored, they will probably be worth more and more. The bottom line is the old legal maxim: “The value of a thing is what that thing will bring.” – JWR

James Wesley Rawles July 5, 2021

[The War Wagon]

know your coin weights and best value for your investing bucks these days!!!

When buying fractional gold, know your coin weights!!!! Because this is a killer deal, I had it bookmarked, that, & I've always wanted one. https://www.ebay.com/itm/294837102629?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649 Because its rare, most of it's value at .12094 oz. is numismatic. Instead, I went with the gold Mexican 5 peso piece, which at .1205 oz. has only a sliver less of gold & I saved over $200! know your weights,

And splurge for one of these to protect yourself, once you start spending gold & silver during the apocalpyse!! https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y61YW7S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  as I said here last year!- https://www.pazrt.com/forum/Thread-The-P...nomic-tool

[The War Wagon]

Even the smarter states are catching on!

Idaho House Votes for Potential Gold and Silver Allocation to Hedge State Funds
TOPICS:GoldIdahoSilver
February 17, 2022
By Money Metals
Boise, Idaho (February 17, 2022) —

The Idaho State House today overwhelmingly approved a bill which enables the State Treasurer to protect state reserve funds from inflation and financial risk by holding physical gold and silver.
State representatives voted 55-14 to pass House Bill 522, the Idaho Sound Money Reserves Act, sending the measure introduced by Representative Ron Nate (R-Rexburg) to the Senate for a hearing.
Supported by Idahoans and groups such as Sound Money Defense League, HB 522 would permit – but not require – the State Treasurer to hold some portion of state funds in physical gold and silver to help secure state assets against the risks of inflation and financial turmoil and/or to achieve capital gains as measured in devaluing Federal Reserve Notes.

Speaking on the house floor, Rep. Nate noted, “Idaho’s current investments are comprised almost entirely of debt instruments with a negative real yield, plus they have a default risk. That’s risk without reward. We need to give our Treasurer another tool in the toolbox, the option to hold gold and silver, to protect taxpayer funds.”
The State Treasurer currently has few options for holding, managing, and investing Idaho’s “idle moneys.” Due to statutory constraints, Idaho’s reserves are invested almost exclusively in low-yielding debt paper that carries counterparty risk while its value is diminished by inflation.
In a recent Idaho Statesman column, Stefan Gleason, president of Idaho-based Money Metals Exchange, explained that “the Idaho State Treasurer’s office today has upwards of $10 billion in assets under management – the value of which is rapidly bleeding away through negative real interest rates.”
“That’s because the state reserves are principally invested in low-interest debt paper, e.g., U.S. Treasuries, money market funds, corporate debt, repurchase agreements, and other dollar-denominated debt,” Gleason continued.

Responding to growing concerns about rising government debts and Federal Reserve money printing, Ohio recently followed Texas in acquiring a 5% physical gold holding in its public pension funds. Oklahoma is among other states currently considering bills like HB 522.
Jp Cortez, policy director of the Sound Money Defense League, said, “Inflation has reached every Idaho home to the tune of at least 7%, which means that the real annual rate of return for Idaho taxpayers on its $10 billion in ‘idle moneys’ is deeply negative, perhaps greater than $500 million.”
HB 522 adds the authority to hold physical gold and silver directly and in a manner that does not assume the counterparty and default risks involved with other state holdings. HB 522 bill does not grant any authority to buy stocks, futures contracts, or other gold-based proxies or financial instruments. There are at least four depositories in the region that would be eligible to hold Idaho’s gold and/or silver.
“An allocation to physical gold and silver fits squarely within the objective of protecting Idaho taxpayer funds against financial risks and the monetary metals would logically be included in a list of safe investment options,” said Gleason. “Gold and silver can provide a hedge against inflation, debt default risks, and stock market declines – and have historically boosted investment returns while also reducing volatility.”

House Bill 522 can be heard before the Senate State Affairs Committee as early as next week.
The Sound Money Defense League is a public policy group working nationally to promote sound money policies, including reaffirming the constitutional role of gold and silver as money.
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[The War Wagon]

FWIW, I proceed from the standpoint that everyone is my age or older (my line of work is mostly with an elderly population all older than me) - mid-50's, and that your parents all went through the Great Depression & WWII like mine, & that you have also lived through gas lines & inflation & malaise of the Jimmah Catah years like I did.  I remember my dad socking away Mercury dimes, and storing cans of Quaker State motor oil in the rafters of our garage in those years.  He also had a magnetic reversible 6/9 for our license plates so he could gas up on any day, as rationing limited odd even plates to certain days when you could gas up.

Which means I'm gonna presume You've been stockpiling your ammo & weaponry since 1992 as well, when we first saw Klin-ton I on the horizon, buying cheap & stacking deep during the fat years to tide you through these lean ones.  You will also have worked on valuable skillsets like wild edible plant identification, knot tying, camping, offroading & vehivle repair skills amongst others, and prepped some bugout bags accordingly - especially with first aid gear.  You'll have your water reclamation plans in place & enough beany weenies socked away for more rainy days than Noah endured.  And being thus prepared, you've learned real economics since 2006, & are likwise buying your silver (first) & gold on the dips, as I've advocated here.  If you're a youngster seek out some old guys who have been there & done this & learn accordingly, while there's still time.  It CAN be done on a tight budget, btw.  I spent most of the Klin-ton I years as a poor grad student, and working for non-profits since then.  While raising 4 special needs kids since 2000 with a stay-at home wife, so don't complain to me about poverty, I've been living it.  Prioritize, ESPECIALLY if you have kids.  You will be the difference as to whether they survive the Coming Storm, or their dying word is "WHUHHH?!?!"  If it means no cable TV or no vacations or fewer meals out, so be it!  Always keep the big picture in mind.

And take care of yourself, too.  I'm still trying to overcome my stroke last fall & now diabetes on top of it.  It's gotta be done, so I do it.  No one else is volunteering to do it for me, so that's my burden to bear at present & it's a sucky time to be doing so.  At least I covered most of these bases above starting years ago.  Start today, because there are no days left to be sitting behind the 8-ball wishing you'd started earlier.

[The War Wagon]

From Survivalblog!

What’s a Dime Worth? Bartering with Junk Silver, by H. North
  Hugh James Latimer November 28, 2015 

“Brother, can you spare a dime?” is one of the best-known American songs of the Great Depression. The question was commonly asked by drifters hoping to be able to use the dime to buy a meal or two as they wandered the country looking for work. However, that was the 1930’s. Thus, it begs the question: in today’s economy, what’s a dime really worth? Is it still worth just a meal or two? Up until 1965, most American coinage was comprised of 90% silver, which is commonly referred to today as “junk” silver. Starting in 1965, the U.S. Mint diluted our coinage with lower value metals, with our nickel being the only current exception.
Imagine a world where the fiat dollar has collapsed. As John Lennon would tell us, it’s easy if you try. The excrement has made contact with the oscillation device. Things are tough all over. Fortunately, your neighborhood has managed to maintain or regain some semblance of peace and security and has announced an open market for barter, where it’s highly doubtful that now worthless fiat paper currency would be accepted.
Some neighbors have advertised that they have eggs from their chickens. Some have ammo in various calibers. A number have baked loaves of bread they hope to exchange for something of like value. There’s even one neighbor who has a dairy cow and some milk. From reading SurvivalBlog.com, you wisely chose to stash away a few rolls of pre-65 silver dimes when times were still relatively good, along with a few other silver coins and even a little gold, and you are merrily on your way to the market, hoping to stock up on a few fresh commodities and other supplies. What would be considered fair market value in exchange for one of those pre-1965 90% silver dimes? In short, what’s a dime worth?
Preppers everywhere are encouraged to have some precious metals as insurance against currency collapse. Gold and silver have been money and a store of value for at least 3,000 years. That status will return after the “paper” era has collapsed. For Americans, pre-1965 coins (a.k.a. “junk” silver) are probably the most common. They are affordable, widely recognized, and trusted.
When the current fiat dollar eventually does collapse, people will quickly resort to barter. In a post-SHTF situation, the most valuable commodity will most likely be food, followed next by ammunition. Some people may make the mistake of stockpiling large amounts of precious metals at the expense of a deep larder or other commodities, thinking that they can buy all the food and anything else they may need, but they may be in for a very rude awakening. As the saying goes, you can’t eat gold. When people say to me, “I have a year’s supply of food, now what’s the next best thing to stock up on?” I recommend another year of food.
Nevertheless, having a supply of precious metals stashed away is only prudent insurance. It is safe to presume that many people would use “junk” silver for barter. But to do so effectively, one must first ask the question: What’s a dime worth?
To answer this question, one must first determine a realistic value of gold and silver– the most common precious metals one can expect to encounter in a barter situation. First, we must understand that the actual value of precious metals doesn’t really change, but what is really happening is the fluctuation in the value of the fiat dollar. For example, a gentleman was able to buy a well-made, tailored, business suit with a one-ounce gold coin throughout the 1800s. The same can be said today, demonstrating that gold holds about the same value as it has for hundreds of years.
Starting with gold, we see that it peaked in July 2013 at almost $1,400 per Troy ounce, and for the last year it has roughly hovered between $1,100 and $1,200 per ounce. So, for the purpose of establishing relative value with other commodities in our current market, we will use a conservatively rounded estimate of $1,200 by today’s prices.
Next, for silver, it gets a bit trickier (or easier, depending upon one’s perspective). Those familiar with the precious metals markets understand that their actual values are being suppressed by manipulative banksters to continue to prop up the failing fiat dollar for as long as possible, to serve their own purposes. The Gold/Silver ratio is currently being manipulated at an unrealistic 75-to-1. Many have cited that the Gold/Silver ratio should be roughly 16-to-1. This was an historic level that existed largely prior to 1900, during periods when both gold and silver were routinely fixed prices. The ratio as a result was largely fixed as well.
Thus, we can see that the true value of silver is being heavily suppressed. Precious metals and commodities brokers have spoken of this suppressed value for years and have been anticipating that at some point in the future the ratio will re-balance itself back to a more believable ratio. When the fiat dollar does collapse, it is expected that precious metals will “increase” in value—or more accurately, the value of the fiat dollar will plummet. When this happens, it is expected that silver will rise proportionally higher than gold, in order to re-establish its historic ratio in value. Thus, some investors advise placing a heavier emphasis on silver than gold, as a greater return is more likely. If we accept, for the purposes of our example here, a value of $1,200 per ounce for gold and a relatively conservative gold-to-silver value ratio of 20-to-1, then a more reliable value for silver based on its historical ratio would be closer to $60 per ounce, as opposed to its currently suppressed $16 per ounce.
A pre-65 dime contains .07234 Troy ounces of silver. If we calculate its value based upon the more historically accepted ratio, this dime would represent approximately $4.34 in today’s dollar value. For simplicity’s sake, let us round this conservatively to $4. Now, we ask, when we walk down the aisles of our local grocery store, what’s currently priced for about $4? Let’s start with the staples:

• Two gallons of milk
  
• Two or three loaves of bread
  
• Two or three dozen eggs
  

Walking down the aisles of the local supermarket, I saw that most average-sized canned food items and bags of dried pasta were being sold for about $1 each. Expect that fresh produce from your local farms will, of course, be priced seasonally. Naturally, as with all things, prices and values will fluctuate based upon local supply and demand, as well as the quality of the merchandise. For example, if you happen to live in the dairy land capital of Wisconsin, then you may be able to get three or four gallons of milk for your dime.
What about ammunition? For ammo, I stick to U.S.-made only, and I encourage all to do likewise. We need to support our own indigenous ammo producers. Here are some common American brands and popular calibers from Sportsmansguide.com:

So now, if we want to barter using ammunition, we have an idea of the different values compared to a pre-65 dime. This can now be cross-referenced with food, and we know now, for example, that four rounds of 5.56mm ammo are about the same value as a gallon of milk.
Okay, so now we have an idea of what a dime’s worth. But what about other junk silver coins? Well, in this particular case, the U.S. Mint seems to have done us a favor, because the amount of silver in a pre-65 quarter is precisely 2.5 times the amount in a dime. What about a pre-65 half dollar? You guessed it. It’s five times, and for those of us that still occasionally struggle with math, yes, two pre-65 quarters equal a pre-65 half dollar. Thus, these three coins can easily be added, combined, and divided as needed to create different transaction values, with no fractional losses or drawn-out calculations!
Now, with the Morgan and Peace Silver Dollar coins from 1878 to 1935, we unfortunately must delve into fractional accounting. Likewise, I realize that the “Silver” Eisenhower Dollars dated 1971-76 contain 40% silver, but I have personally chosen to trade these in to avoid any possible mix-ups.
With Silver Eagles and Standing Liberty one-ounce coins, these likewise do not divide evenly into our junk silver coinage. But this chart will help you get close, and then haggle from there.

For those holding gold but little in the way of silver, hopefully this demonstrates the need for lower value coinage, as it will be tough to find enough “change” to purchase a loaf of bread with even a 1/10th-ounce gold Eagle, which would be valued at about $120 in this example. Keep in mind that when bartering at an open-air market, there will be no banks or exchanges to break down denominations—unless someone has a sufficient supply of coinage and chooses to open their own booth for just such a purpose, for a small fee of course.
So, for all of us who have ever collected junk silver coins and wondered, “How will I use these? What are they worth?”, now we hopefully have a better idea of comparative values and a foundation to start from. This way, you’ll know when someone is trying to sell you a loaf of bread for a one-ounce silver coin that it may be an opportunity to practice your haggling skills! Good luck and happy bartering!