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+--- Thread: AR 15 Build. (/Thread-AR-15-Build)
RE: AR 15 Build. - PRIME_Ω_PREDATOR - 10-21-2010
Here is a run down of what I want to do. I'm looking to build the right rifle for me for the least amount of money. Some things you have no choice but to put out the cash.
1. Aero Precision stripped lower receiver. $59.99 (in hand)
2. Del-Ton m-4 rifle kit $475 with ARFCOM discount of about 10 bucks.
3. Piston Kit(leaning toward adams arms) $260 +/-
4. Midwest Industries MCTAR 20P free float piston quad rail $170 +/-
5. Flip up front and rear sights $100 +/-
6. Eotech XPS2 $460
7. Magpul sling plate $29
8. Magpul multimission sling $48
9. Ambi ERGO Grip $22
10. Spring Loaded bipod foregrip $20 Yes it is an airsoft grip. I have one on my Bushmaster and have had no problems at all with it.
11. UTG light laser combo $70
I'm looking at about $1300 not including shipping costs. I'm going to try to order multiple items from the same site to keep shipping cost down. Price could change if I see something that catches my eye or if I find a deal somewhere but this is the current plan. I will post the final tally when all is said and done.
RE: AR 15 Build. - Lycanthrope - 10-23-2010
(10-18-2010, 05:16 PM)nepawolf Wrote: If you're looking for a marksman of varmint gun, go with the 20. You could compromise and use an 18, but the longer the barrel is the better the velocity of the round and the better the accuracy. Remember, it's not just the size of the barrel, it's how it's coated that can make or break it. A nice crown wouldn't hurt either though.
Barrel length doesn't really have any bearing on accuracy. You might lose 50fps using an 18" barrel versus a 20" barrel. The 18" guns are nice because they are a bit more maneuverable and still use the softer recoiling, rifle length gas system.
Non chrome lined barrels shoot about .5 moa better than comparable chrome lined barrels. Outside coatings have no real bearing.
You can buy a White Oak Armament stainless barrel for under $300 and those will shoot .5 moa with handloads. They come with an 11 degree target crown (threaded) and can be had with M4 ramps. It's the best bargain in accurate AR barrels.
RE: AR 15 Build. - nepawolf - 10-24-2010
(10-23-2010, 11:48 PM)Lycanthrope Wrote:(10-18-2010, 05:16 PM)nepawolf Wrote: If you're looking for a marksman of varmint gun, go with the 20. You could compromise and use an 18, but the longer the barrel is the better the velocity of the round and the better the accuracy. Remember, it's not just the size of the barrel, it's how it's coated that can make or break it. A nice crown wouldn't hurt either though.
Barrel length doesn't really have any bearing on accuracy. You might lose 50fps using an 18" barrel versus a 20" barrel. The 18" guns are nice because they are a bit more maneuverable and still use the softer recoiling, rifle length gas system.
Non chrome lined barrels shoot about .5 moa better than comparable chrome lined barrels. Outside coatings have no real bearing.
You can buy a White Oak Armament stainless barrel for under $300 and those will shoot .5 moa with handloads. They come with an 11 degree target crown (threaded) and can be had with M4 ramps. It's the best bargain in accurate AR barrels.
I was referring to a moly or ceramic barrel lining, not an outside liner. The only way an outside coating could really effect accuracy is with rapid firing if it doesn't properly dissipate heat.
RE: AR 15 Build. - Lycanthrope - 10-24-2010
(10-24-2010, 12:23 AM)nepawolf Wrote:(10-23-2010, 11:48 PM)Lycanthrope Wrote:(10-18-2010, 05:16 PM)nepawolf Wrote: If you're looking for a marksman of varmint gun, go with the 20. You could compromise and use an 18, but the longer the barrel is the better the velocity of the round and the better the accuracy. Remember, it's not just the size of the barrel, it's how it's coated that can make or break it. A nice crown wouldn't hurt either though.
Barrel length doesn't really have any bearing on accuracy. You might lose 50fps using an 18" barrel versus a 20" barrel. The 18" guns are nice because they are a bit more maneuverable and still use the softer recoiling, rifle length gas system.
Non chrome lined barrels shoot about .5 moa better than comparable chrome lined barrels. Outside coatings have no real bearing.
You can buy a White Oak Armament stainless barrel for under $300 and those will shoot .5 moa with handloads. They come with an 11 degree target crown (threaded) and can be had with M4 ramps. It's the best bargain in accurate AR barrels.
I was referring to a moly or ceramic barrel lining, not an outside liner. The only way an outside coating could really effect accuracy is with rapid firing if it doesn't properly dissipate heat.
I haven't heard of moly lining. Chromium molybdenum alloy steel barrels are what good hunting and precision rifles are equipped with, but they aren't lined. It's just part of the alloy.
Otis has done some ceramic lining, but with all liners they are only as good as the finished steel underneath and don't improve accuracy as much as help to reduce wear. In fact, unless you can line the barrel evenly you will lose accuracy.
RE: AR 15 Build. - PRIME_Ω_PREDATOR - 10-24-2010
What kind of cost are you guys talking about with the upgraded barrels? I'm looking to build a decent carbine without breaking the bank. I could buy a STAG M-8 for around $1100 but when you add the optics and quad rail and other items your easily looking at close to $2000. I could see putting an upgraded barrel on a long range rifle but I'm building something that will be used in urban and suburban areas and home/personal defense.
RE: AR 15 Build. - Lycanthrope - 10-24-2010
(10-24-2010, 10:46 AM)PRIME_Ω_PREDATOR Wrote: What kind of cost are you guys talking about with the upgraded barrels? I'm looking to build a decent carbine without breaking the bank. I could buy a STAG M-8 for around $1100 but when you add the optics and quad rail and other items your easily looking at close to $2000. I could see putting an upgraded barrel on a long range rifle but I'm building something that will be used in urban and suburban areas and home/personal defense.
Almost all the accuracy potential in the AR platform comes from the barrel quality. Add a free float tube and most will easily shoot under 1 moa with handloads. With that in mind, it's relatively easy to build a .5 moa AR for under $1200.
A typical DPMS, Oly or RRA barrel will shoot 1 moa off the shelf with handloads if it's floated and not chrome lined. I have a Model 1 lightweight with a Shaw barrel that shot .75 moa with 69gr Sierra Match Kings when it was new. Of course, if you're shooting bulk 55gr ammo, then you're really not going to see the potential of the gun anyhow........
Anyhow, the best buy for an accurate barrel for the money is a White Oak Armament barrel. For stainless and M4 ramped, they are under $300. I've had two and built two more guns off of those barrels and with 77gr Noslers they all shot .5 moa or better.
This does not mean, however, that this will translate to lighter bullets. The WOA barrels are 1:7 twist and they love the heavy bullets, but shoot 2+ moa with bulk 55gr ammo. In contrast I have a DPMS barreled 1:9 Clark Gator (guranteed .5 moa) that will shoot 69gr SMK at .5 moa and 77gr Noslers at 1.5 moa. So....although the Gator is not my most accurate rifle, it is the most accurate rifle when using a wide variety of ammo.....and would probably a better choice for someone who is only shooting shelf ammo.
RE: AR 15 Build. - PRIME_Ω_PREDATOR - 10-24-2010
I'll stick with the stock barrel. I'm currently testing different ammo in my Bushamaster. If I can get some steel jacketed russian ammo to feed consistantly I will buy a case of it. I'm not looking to get every shot inside a quarter's diameter. I'm looking to put together a reliable home built piston gun.
RE: AR 15 Build. - jmiro - 10-24-2010
Lycan, thoughts between the 16 and 18 inch?
RE: AR 15 Build. - Lycanthrope - 10-24-2010
Chrome lining doesn't necessarily make the gun more reliable. There are actually instances where it can hamper if the chamber was not cut to account for the chrome lining. Colt just happens to be one of the companies that accounts for the thickness of chrome when they ream the chambers.
AR's are often mass produced and share many of the same parts. CMT makes the lowers for Colt, RRA and Stag. Many shelf guns use either Wilson or Shaw barrels. It goes on and on. Sometimes during mass production reamers get dull and you get some rough chambers. Those can cause issues.
The nice thing about a match barrel is that generally more attention is given to the crown and chamber. 5.56 and .223 Wylde chambers are just as reliable as stock 5.56 chambers....with better accuracy. When you compare the price of a barrel from Bushmaster or RRA at about $250 and can get a Stainless Match barrel from WOA at $275......well, there is no better gain for your money if you want an accurate AR and reload.
As for the 18", it's easier to see hits on target with a rifle length gas system which has a smoother gas pulse. The rifle gas system is also relatively forgiving compared to a carbine length system and you never need a H Buffer or other trickery to get the gun to run easily. That being said, I cannot speak for bare crowned 18" guns because all of mine have run muzzle brakes.
RE: AR 15 Build. - PRIME_Ω_PREDATOR - 10-31-2010
Just posting some stuff to keep the thread on top until I get the build parts.
I took my Bushamaster to the range Friday afternoon. I wanted to test the following rounds.
20 rounds each:
55 gr Wolf
55 gr Brown Bear
55 gr Silver Bear
62 gr Wolf
62 gr Golden Bear
62 gr Brown Bear
I had no issue with any of the ammo. A couple weeks back I tried 60 rounds of Tulammo and had at least 10 failure to feeds. I tried 40 Golden Tiger and had 7 failure to fires. I didn't want to give up on the Russian Ammo. My personal opinion was that the Silver Bear and Brown Bear had more zing to them. the other rounds were about the same. now 20 rounds of a certain ammo isn't a good measure but the Tula and tiger all FTFed within 20 rounds.
I'll be buying at least 1000 rounds here soon. I'll likely split it between the 62 gr Silver Bear and Brown Bear.